[O29] "big chiefs" in O29
John Harris
john.r.harris at verizon.net
Sat Oct 8 12:38:12 PDT 2005
Hi Keith,
You have had three months to make concrete proposals on the question of
democracy.
You have chosen not to. You have had ample opportunity to make proposals on
agenda
points. You have that opportunity now as you have in the past. If you had
not disappeared
for a while in July you would be playing more of a role "generally
overseeing the tempo, character,
and content of the whole process." That was your choice. Maybe you can find
a way for
us to be able to use the room past 8:00 PM. I have been unsuccessful in that
regard.
The political "lashings" that you have performed have been far more numerous
than mine.
Democracy is an important question that will be discussed and debated long
after October 29th.
I am sure everyone will be looking forward to hearing your ideas and
proposals as we move forward
in the months ahead.
In solidarity,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: O29-bounces at massglobalaction.org
[mailto:O29-bounces at massglobalaction.org]On Behalf Of Keith Rosenthal
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 2:49 PM
To: o29 at massglobalaction.org
Subject: [O29] "big chiefs" in O29
john,
all the people you listed: chris, nick g., etc., have been doing a
wonderful job organizing for this protest and their input is always great,
crucial, and important, and i hope they continue to speak up with their
ideas.
the "big chiefs" i am referring to are actually not the ones you mentioned
at all. i'm referring to the ones who come off as the most confident and
talkative in the meetings, tend to interrupt others at the meetings, get
aggravated and constantly try to interject into meetings that we have to
"move on," and generally act like they are the supreme guiding forces of the
protest and coalition effort who have been charged -- without any vote being
taken -- with generally overseeing the tempo, character, and content of the
whole process. everyone in the group knows that these "big chiefs" are the
ones who act in such a way as to project the sense that they are in charge
and everyone else should just generally go along with what they think lest
they be on the receiving end of a moralistic, personalistic, and obnoxious
(anything but patient and political) lashing. from coming up with agendas
behind the scenes that get dumped on some unsuspecting chairperson at the
last minute (which has begun to change, and which is great), to speaking out
of turn and taking an aggressive posture towards any agenda points or ideas
that have not been pre-discussed with these "big chiefs", which makes newer
people feel less confident to speak up in meetings. this is what i'm
referring to.
we have taken steps forward around these issues since i've begun attending
these meetings consistently in September, but I think this process needs to
keep proceeding towards further openess, active inclusion, and democracy,
which will ony lead to stronger, bigger, more inviting, and more vibrant
planning meetings, which will make people feel welcome and excited about
building the hell out of this protest. this is why democracy and inclusion
is inextricably linked with the process of building mass protests and
struggle.
we can have a huge protest on Oct. 29th. i flyered and tabled on Tuesday,
Thursday, and Friday of this past week for the protest and the response has
been great. we can make this protest even better and even bigger if we are
able to continue our outward organizing, get more people in the coalition
and beyond involved in this process, and also continue the current (and,
hopefully, future) important--somtimes contentious--internal political
discussions.
--keith
John Harris <john.r.harris at verizon.net> wrote:
Hi Keith,
You have raised some concerns about democracy here that should be
addressed.
In particular you would like to see more "discussion concerning the
political
shape of the protest and movement". In June when ideas were being
debated
about the political shape of the movement when the Committee for a Fall
Action
had a discussion of the Fall Boston action you spoke volumes and no one
cut you
off. Once there was support in the broader antiwar movement for a fall
action, the
Committee for a Fall Action dissolved. The purpose of our existance was
achieved.
In July, you chose not to come to meetings of the October 29th Coalition
or bring
your ideas forward. In August there was extensive debate on demands and
the
"political shape of the protest and movement" and you expressed your
views like
everyone else. You were not cut off and neither were any of the people
newer than
you. In September the discussion focused more on "getting things done"
and I feel
this is only natural. You have been given ample opportunately to express
your views
on the list serv. You have certainly taken this opportunity more than I
have. I guarentee
that I won't complain later that I did not have the opportunity. You
seem to agree that
process should not trump politics or action. What we need now is Action
and process
should not be allowed to trump this. You will again have the opportunity
to debate "political
shape" in the form of a proposal for a demand. And the Coalition has the
democratic right to
take Action on whatever is decided. It is unfortunate that we get booted
out of our meeting
place at 8:00 sharp. But that is the arrangement we democratically
decided to make. The
Coalition decided in July to encourage organizations to put out postings
and fliers. This has
been done. You could have made a proposal to the contrary. But I think
it is a little late now.
Were we being undemocratic?
In an earlier post you raised something very closely related to what you
are raising below:
"if anything, we should be seeking to get new people involved and coming
back to the
planning meetings to help us build for the protest. that means that in
addition to doing
outreach, our meetings have to be open, inviting, accessible, and exude
a desire to take
the time to draw new people into the discussion, hear out their ideas
and concerns, and
take the time to give them full discussion, not trample all over them
and indefinitely table
their proposals because "the big chiefs have to get to work." in my
experience, it is quite
possible (and necessary) to combine the utmost in discussion and
democracy with the
utmost in organizing. otherwise, at the end of the day, there is nobody
but the "big chiefs"
left standing alone in the room."
In my view, I see you reinventing yourself as a newcomer and bursting on
to the scene to
challenge the "big chiefs". The task of geting "new people involved and
coming back to the
planning meetings to help us build for the protest" is what many of us
are doing right now.
The October 29th Coalition never bothered to elect a coordinator ("big
chief"). Thank heaven
Chris is coordinating Outreach and Karen was coordinating Permits and
Jason is
coordinating Media and Nick is coordinating the Web Site and maybe Brian
on finances.
I am not sure who is coordinating our other activities. To some the "big
chief" line of
argumentation in this context may seem offensive and could put
Machiavelli to shame.
But for me it has provided some comic relief which I have enjoyed.
In Solidarity,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: O29-bounces at massglobalaction.org
[mailto:O29-bounces at massglobalaction.org]On Behalf Of Keith Rosenthal
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:37 AM
To: o29 at massglobalaction.org
Subject: [O29] Monday meeting, open to public, one protest/one flyer
Hey,
A discussion on the demands issue definitely needs to be on the
agenda. It was a tie vote last week, there has been more time for
discussion and compromise since, and because of the nature of the demand,
the tie vote needs to be broken one way or the other because of the
importance of the demand. We could just allot 15-20 minutes for this
discussion, take hands, for and against, and then vote. A discussion on the
different ideas people have for how to politically shape the protest is just
as (if not more) important than a logisitical discussion about the order of
the speakers or how we're going to get a sound system (which can be worked
out in sub-committees).
Anyway, it would be healthy for our coalition to hear out in full
the different political ideas people have about the protest, and not just
talk about the various specific and mundane (though not unimportant)
details. I've personally been frustrated with the extent to which our
meetings have been marked by the quick cutting off of discussion concerning
the political shape of the protest and movement, in order to "get things
done." To me this is undemocratic, because then the political shaping of
the protest, which is the most important part, ends up happening in
individual discussions and conversations elsewhere. I have heard it said
that this is done in order to keep the coalition "unified," but I actually
think it only keeps us divided from hearing out each others' ideas.
Finally, I'm actually not sure that we should have 20 different
flyers for the protest, all created by different member groups, and all
saying different demands on them. If we were going to do that, then what's
the point of even voting on demands? We are voting on these demands because
we, as a majority, feel that they are crucial demands to get out there into
the public eye, and, by voting, or not voting, we feel that the whole group
ought to be democratically accountable to carry out that decision, with one
flyer, which we will all be using.
Oh, and one last thing, if there is anyone out there in listserve
land that has been following this debate, I strongly encourage you to feel
more than welcome to attend the organizing meeting this coming Monday at 6pm
at the Mass Global Action Office at 33 Harrison Street, 4th floor, in
Chinatown (two blocks from the Chinatown T stop on the Orange Line).
Especially if you understand the importance of getting this demand against
racism on the flyer and central to our movement, please come to the meeting
Monday and let your voice be heard. Thank you.
Solidarity,
Keith Rosenthal
DAVID KEIL <dmkeil at gmail.com> wrote:
This is to pass on ideas I've heard about procedure Monday (6pm,
MGA).
Some reports we need to hear and discuss are: program; permits and
logistics; outreach (including leafleting, endorsements, and
regional
outreach); and finances. We usually start with minutes from the
previous meeting, choice of note taker for current meeting, and
choice
of facilitator for next meeting, plus intros. I've heard that some
committees need to meet, so if people agree, then between 7:00 and
7:30 we could break the general meeting up into committees.
The last item on the general agenda would be demands, to discuss and
vote on the following:
- Keith's motion (10/7) to add "Stop the Racist Attacks on the
Black,
Latin@, Arab & Muslim Communities" to the list of central demands or
slogans;
- A possible motion by Amee (10/8) to add "Militarism reinforces
racism, sexism, & homophobia" to the central slogans;
- Possible other slogans, such as "Stop the Racist Rhetoric" (R.
Miller 10/8) or ones based on Gustavo's post (10/8).
It seems that most activists want most of the general meeting to be
about important details of preparing the action, but there seems to
be
a consensus also to hear proposals on demands. Everyone wants an
atmosphere of respect, collaboration, and friendship, even if we
cast
divided votes and sometimes feel angry with each other. One way
suggested to ensure this atmosphere in the demands discussion is to
hear very briefly how everyone feels; then after a brief silence, to
take motions, take brief discussion, and vote.
Informal discussion tonight at Assembling Peace in JP, and
discussions
Sunday and Monday, will be an important way to prepare for the
too-short formal discussion Monday night.
David
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