[O29] Arabs and Muslims, "Middle America, " and building our movement

Thu Oct 6 09:05:54 PDT 2005

Roberts (or anyone else's) rules of order are good for completely random 
people with diverging views who would, in the absence of such rules, 
simply yell past each other.  It's a sign of failure of the rules in 
this case that there seems to be so much discord at this point on some 
of these topics.  Micromanagement stifles people's natural energies, and 
misdirects it into needlessly prolonged debate and planning as opposed 
to action.   I don't mean to reopen the rift between event organizers 
and self-styled anarchists (myself among them) but it would be great if 
the sectarian bickering could for once give way to a spirit of unity and 
defiance.  Who cares what the flyers say--there won't be a picture of 
them in the paper the next day and few people who don't already agree 
with what they say are going to read them, in my humble opinion.   As 
long as people know there's something big against the war happening that 
day we'll be OK--as long as we don't expect everyone  who shows up to be 
enthralled by the bands and speakers.  By all means have a program, but 
also leave time and space for shit to happen on its own, and it will.  
You may not score any new members for your pet organization but if 
people have a good time they will come out again and again.

peace

gus

On 10/6/2005 9:29 AM, John Harris wrote:

>Hi all,
>Amee feels that Roberts rules of order are "dumb and promote
>misunderstanding".
>I am interested in hearing her views on what we should use as a substitute.
>Since her involvement in May I have not heard a concrete proposal along the
>lines of "expanding demands back to the drawing board, in
>order to include this demand with a neat package of several other
>issue areas that have been neglected." With 3 weeks left it would be
>difficult
>to go "back to the drawing board" as she proposes and could be implied
>by Keith's proposal.
>In Solidarity,
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: O29-bounces at massglobalaction.org
>[mailto:O29-bounces at massglobalaction.org]On Behalf Of Huibin Amelia Chew
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:21 AM
>To: Ty dePass
>Cc: o29 at massglobalaction.org
>Subject: Re: [O29] Arabs and Muslims, "Middle America, " and building
>our movement
>
>
>I'd just like to say that Roberts rules of order are dumb and promote
>misunderstanding.  Perhaps even divide and conquer, when their
>black/white double-option votes are taken prematurely.
>
>At the meeting I tried to put forward another "motion" that did not
>wipe the demand about anti-Arab racism off the table, but instead
>brought the idea of expanding demands back to the drawing board, in
>order to include this demand with a neat package of several other
>issue areas that have been neglected.  (*erhm*)
>
>This is why I voted "no" on procedural grounds.  But then after the
>vote, once discussion ensued, it turned out several people (including
>those confusingly abstaining from the vote), were also in favor of
>adding the anti-racist demand if expanded in more inclusive terms, and
>perhaps paired with other missing demands.
>
>peace,
>-Amee
>
>On 10/5/05, Ty dePass <maceito at comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>
>>gente – Chrystie joins the conversation to insist that no one voted
>>    
>>
>against
>  
>
>>'Stop the racist scapegoating of Arabs and Muslims' as a march demand; on
>>the contrary, <snip>"The vote was on whether or not we were going back and
>>re-examining our list of demands."<snip> for her, the issue is more about
>>process than politics: <snip> "Clearly, with three weeks to go, we need to
>>move on." <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>i hadn't planned to get into this exchange at all, but i couldn't let this
>>rather facile rejoinder slide by w/o a comment—i've been there before. but
>>what surprises me most about this entire exchange is why it took so long
>>    
>>
>for
>  
>
>>anyone to notice that this demand was so conspicuously absent from the
>>original list. as Keith, and others have noted, since 9/11 anyone who even
>>looked like they might be an Arab—or know an Arab—has been subject to
>>arrest, detention, deportation, and vilification by the Bushwhackers and
>>their corporate media shills. Chrystie says <snip> "We should all be
>>focusing on making this rally happen rather then [sic] all of this
>>in-fighting and drawn out political discussions. <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>if this were a stage production of "Oklahoma," i might take her point, but
>>this is a political mobilization, a step on the way toward what we all
>>    
>>
>hope
>  
>
>>will become a mass ant-war movement. to be voting down a demand of such
>>obvious relevance/significance to this effort because of logistical
>>    
>>
>concerns
>  
>
>>suggests that there hasn't been enough political debate; further, that
>>    
>>
>this
>  
>
>>group isn't really ready (politically, organizationally or ideologically)
>>    
>>
>to
>  
>
>>step up to the task of building a movement.
>>
>>
>>
>>like i said, i've been there before many times. in '82, the Sane/Freeze
>>folks called for a massive nat'l demo in NYC to oppose deployment of
>>    
>>
>Trident
>  
>
>>missiles in Europe. on the run up to the march, activists engaged in
>>anti-racist and internat'l solidarity work argued for the inclusion of
>>demands linking the defense spending to racially-orchestrated social
>>    
>>
>service
>  
>
>>cuts, the "poverty draft," low-intensity warfare against revolutionary
>>governments in Nicaragua and Angola, and US support for Israel and
>>    
>>
>apartheid
>  
>
>>So. Africa. reasonable, we thought: after all wasn't Reagan's war against
>>the "Evil Empire" unfolding on multiple fronts? and didn't we all share a
>>responsibility for building a united front against war and racism at home
>>and abroad—the kind of militant, multiracial mass movement Dr. King had
>>envisioned? the Sane/Freeze folks disagreed—vehemently: we were
>>    
>>
>introducing
>  
>
>>divisiveness into their coalition, diverting attention from other pressing
>>tasks, diluting the event's political message…yada, yada, yada. sound
>>familiar?
>>
>>
>>
>>("tio") Ty
>>
>>
>>
>>it ain't what we don't know that hurts us...it's what we do know, that
>>    
>>
>ain't
>  
>
>>so...
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>O29 mailing list
>>O29 at massglobalaction.org
>>http://massglobalaction.org/mailman/listinfo/o29_massglobalaction.org
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>--
>"There are plenty of women in Fallujah who have testified they were
>raped by American soldiers... They are nearby the secondary school for
>girls inside Fallujah. When people came back to Fallujah the first
>time they found so many girls who were totally naked and they had been
>killed."
>
>  -- Mohammed Abdulla, executive director of the Study Center for
>Human Rights and Democracy in Fallujah, quoted in
>http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/hard_news/archives/newscommentary/000251.php
>_______________________________________________
>O29 mailing list
>O29 at massglobalaction.org
>http://massglobalaction.org/mailman/listinfo/o29_massglobalaction.org
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>O29 mailing list
>O29 at massglobalaction.org
>http://massglobalaction.org/mailman/listinfo/o29_massglobalaction.org
>
>
>  
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://massglobalaction.org/pipermail/o29_massglobalaction.org/attachments/20051006/cf77ddfb/attachment.html>