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Roberts (or anyone else's) rules of order are good for completely
random people with diverging views who would, in the absence of such
rules, simply yell past each other. It's a sign of failure of the
rules in this case that there seems to be so much discord at this point
on some of these topics. Micromanagement stifles people's natural
energies, and misdirects it into needlessly prolonged debate and
planning as opposed to action. I don't mean to reopen the rift
between event organizers and self-styled anarchists (myself among them)
but it would be great if the sectarian bickering could for once give
way to a spirit of unity and defiance. Who cares what the flyers
say--there won't be a picture of them in the paper the next day and few
people who don't already agree with what they say are going to read
them, in my humble opinion. As long as people know there's something
big against the war happening that day we'll be OK--as long as we don't
expect everyone who shows up to be enthralled by the bands and
speakers. By all means have a program, but also leave time and space
for shit to happen on its own, and it will. You may not score any new
members for your pet organization but if people have a good time they
will come out again and again.<br>
<br>
peace<br>
<br>
gus<br>
<br>
On 10/6/2005 9:29 AM, John Harris wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midCKEJJMEKCHOJLKFOENEDCEEECIAA.john.r.harris@verizon.net"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi all,
Amee feels that Roberts rules of order are "dumb and promote
misunderstanding".
I am interested in hearing her views on what we should use as a substitute.
Since her involvement in May I have not heard a concrete proposal along the
lines of "expanding demands back to the drawing board, in
order to include this demand with a neat package of several other
issue areas that have been neglected." With 3 weeks left it would be
difficult
to go "back to the drawing board" as she proposes and could be implied
by Keith's proposal.
In Solidarity,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org">O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org">mailto:O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org</a>]On Behalf Of Huibin Amelia Chew
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:21 AM
To: Ty dePass
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:o29@massglobalaction.org">o29@massglobalaction.org</a>
Subject: Re: [O29] Arabs and Muslims, "Middle America, " and building
our movement
I'd just like to say that Roberts rules of order are dumb and promote
misunderstanding. Perhaps even divide and conquer, when their
black/white double-option votes are taken prematurely.
At the meeting I tried to put forward another "motion" that did not
wipe the demand about anti-Arab racism off the table, but instead
brought the idea of expanding demands back to the drawing board, in
order to include this demand with a neat package of several other
issue areas that have been neglected. (*erhm*)
This is why I voted "no" on procedural grounds. But then after the
vote, once discussion ensued, it turned out several people (including
those confusingly abstaining from the vote), were also in favor of
adding the anti-racist demand if expanded in more inclusive terms, and
perhaps paired with other missing demands.
peace,
-Amee
On 10/5/05, Ty dePass <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:maceito@comcast.net"><maceito@comcast.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
gente – Chrystie joins the conversation to insist that no one voted
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->against
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">'Stop the racist scapegoating of Arabs and Muslims' as a march demand; on
the contrary, <snip>"The vote was on whether or not we were going back and
re-examining our list of demands."<snip> for her, the issue is more about
process than politics: <snip> "Clearly, with three weeks to go, we need to
move on." <snip>
i hadn't planned to get into this exchange at all, but i couldn't let this
rather facile rejoinder slide by w/o a comment—i've been there before. but
what surprises me most about this entire exchange is why it took so long
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->for
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">anyone to notice that this demand was so conspicuously absent from the
original list. as Keith, and others have noted, since 9/11 anyone who even
looked like they might be an Arab—or know an Arab—has been subject to
arrest, detention, deportation, and vilification by the Bushwhackers and
their corporate media shills. Chrystie says <snip> "We should all be
focusing on making this rally happen rather then [sic] all of this
in-fighting and drawn out political discussions. <snip>
if this were a stage production of "Oklahoma," i might take her point, but
this is a political mobilization, a step on the way toward what we all
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->hope
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">will become a mass ant-war movement. to be voting down a demand of such
obvious relevance/significance to this effort because of logistical
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->concerns
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">suggests that there hasn't been enough political debate; further, that
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->this
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">group isn't really ready (politically, organizationally or ideologically)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">step up to the task of building a movement.
like i said, i've been there before many times. in '82, the Sane/Freeze
folks called for a massive nat'l demo in NYC to oppose deployment of
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->Trident
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">missiles in Europe. on the run up to the march, activists engaged in
anti-racist and internat'l solidarity work argued for the inclusion of
demands linking the defense spending to racially-orchestrated social
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->service
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">cuts, the "poverty draft," low-intensity warfare against revolutionary
governments in Nicaragua and Angola, and US support for Israel and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->apartheid
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So. Africa. reasonable, we thought: after all wasn't Reagan's war against
the "Evil Empire" unfolding on multiple fronts? and didn't we all share a
responsibility for building a united front against war and racism at home
and abroad—the kind of militant, multiracial mass movement Dr. King had
envisioned? the Sane/Freeze folks disagreed—vehemently: we were
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->introducing
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">divisiveness into their coalition, diverting attention from other pressing
tasks, diluting the event's political message…yada, yada, yada. sound
familiar?
("tio") Ty
it ain't what we don't know that hurts us...it's what we do know, that
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->ain't
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">so...
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
--
"There are plenty of women in Fallujah who have testified they were
raped by American soldiers... They are nearby the secondary school for
girls inside Fallujah. When people came back to Fallujah the first
time they found so many girls who were totally naked and they had been
killed."
-- Mohammed Abdulla, executive director of the Study Center for
Human Rights and Democracy in Fallujah, quoted in
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/hard_news/archives/newscommentary/000251.php">http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/hard_news/archives/newscommentary/000251.php</a>
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