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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Hi
Keith,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>You
have raised some concerns about democracy here that should be addressed.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In
particular <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>you would
like to see more "discussion concerning the <EM>political</EM>
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>shape of the protest and
movement". In June when ideas were being debated
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>about the political shape of the movement when the
Committee for a Fall Action </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>had a</SPAN> discussion of the Fall
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Boston action
you spoke volumes and no one cut you </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>off. Once there was support in the
broader antiwar movement for a fall action, the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Committee for a Fall Action dissolved.
The purpose of our existance was achieved. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In July, you chose not
</SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>to come to meetings of the
October 29th Coalition or bring </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>your ideas forward. In August there
was extensive debate on demands </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>and the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><EM>"political</EM> <FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>shape of the protest and
movement" and </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT>you expressed your
</SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>views like
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>everyone
else. </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>You were not cut
off and neither were any of </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>the people </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>newer than </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>you. In September the discussion
focused more on "getting things done" and I feel </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>this is only natural. You have been
given ample opportunately to express your views </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>on the list serv. You have certainly
taken this opportunity more than I have. I guarentee </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>that I won't </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>complain later that I did not have the opportunity. You
seem to agree that </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>process should not trump politics or
action. What we need now is Action and process </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>should
not be allowed to trump this. You will again have the opportunity to debate
"political </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>shape"
in the form of a proposal for a demand. And the Coalition has the democratic
right to </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>take
Action on whatever is decided. It is unfortunate that we get booted out of our
meeting </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>place
at 8:00 sharp. But that is the arrangement we democratically decided to make.
The </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>Coalition decided in July to
encourage </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>organizations </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>to put out postings and
fliers. This has </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>been
done. You could have made a </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>proposal to the contrary. But I think it
is a little late now. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Were
we being undemocratic? </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In an
earlier post you raised something very closely related to what you are raising
below: </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>"if
anything, we should be seeking to get new people involved </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and coming back
to the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>planning meetings to help us build for the
protest. that means that </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>in addition to doing </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>outreach, our meetings have to be open, inviting,
accessible, and exude </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>a desire to take </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>the
time to draw new people into the discussion, hear out their ideas and
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>concerns, and </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>take
the time to give them full discussion, not trample all over them and
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>indefinitely table </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>their
proposals because "the big chiefs have to get to work." in my experience,
it is quite </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>possible (and necessary) to combine the utmost in
discussion </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>and democracy with the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>utmost
in organizing. otherwise, at the end of the day, there is nobody
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>but the "big chiefs" </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>left
standing alone in the room." </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In my
view, I see you reinventing yourself as a newcomer </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and bursting on
to the scene to </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>challenge the "big chiefs". The task of geting "new
people involved <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>and coming back to the </SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>planning meetings to help us build for the protest" is
what many of us are doing right now. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>The
October 29th Coalition never bothered to elect a coordinator ("big chief").
Thank heaven </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Chris
is coordinating Outreach and Karen was coordinating Permits and Jason is
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>coordinating Media and Nick is coordinating the Web
Site and maybe Brian on finances. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>I am
not sure who is coordinating </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>our other activities. To
some </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>the "big chief" line of </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>argumentation </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>in this context may
seem </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>offensive and could put Machiavelli to shame.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>But
for me it has provided some comic relief which </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>I have enjoyed.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In
Solidarity,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005>John</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org
[mailto:O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith
Rosenthal<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:37 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
o29@massglobalaction.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [O29] Monday meeting, open to
public, one protest/one flyer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Hey,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> A discussion on the demands issue definitely needs to be on
the agenda. It was a tie vote last week, there has been more time for
discussion and compromise since, and because of the nature of the demand, the
tie vote needs to be broken one way or the other because of the importance of
the demand. We could just allot 15-20 minutes for this discussion, take
hands, for and against, and then vote. A discussion on the different
ideas people have for how to politically shape the protest is just as (if not
more) important than a logisitical discussion about the order of the
speakers or how we're going to get a sound system (which can be worked
out in sub-committees). </DIV>
<DIV> Anyway, it would be healthy for our coalition to hear out in
full the different political ideas people have about the protest, and not just
talk about the various specific and mundane (though not unimportant)
details. I've personally been frustrated with the extent to which our
meetings have been marked by the quick cutting off of discussion concerning
the <EM>political</EM> shape of the protest and movement, in order to "get
things done." To me this is undemocratic, because then the political
shaping of the protest, which is the most important part, ends up happening in
individual discussions and conversations elsewhere. I have heard
it said that this is done in order to keep the
coalition "unified," but I actually think it only keeps us divided from
hearing out each others' ideas. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Finally, I'm actually not sure that we should have 20
different flyers for the protest, all created by different member groups, and
all saying different demands on them. If we were going to do that, then
what's the point of even voting on demands? We are voting on these
demands because we, as a majority, feel that they are crucial demands to get
out there into the public eye, and, by voting, or not voting, we feel that the
whole group ought to be democratically accountable to carry out that decision,
with one flyer, which we will all be using.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Oh, and one last thing, if there is anyone out there in
listserve land that has been following this debate, I strongly encourage you
to feel more than welcome to attend the organizing meeting this coming Monday
at 6pm at the Mass Global Action Office at 33 Harrison Street, 4th
floor, in Chinatown (two blocks from the Chinatown T stop on the Orange
Line). Especially if you understand the importance of getting this
demand against racism on the flyer and central to our movement, please come to
the meeting Monday and let your voice be heard. Thank you.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Solidarity,</DIV>
<DIV>Keith Rosenthal</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>DAVID KEIL <dmkeil@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">This
is to pass on ideas I've heard about procedure Monday (6pm, MGA).<BR>Some
reports we need to hear and discuss are: program; permits and<BR>logistics;
outreach (including leafleting, endorsements, and regional<BR>outreach); and
finances. We usually start with minutes from the<BR>previous meeting, choice
of note taker for current meeting, and choice<BR>of facilitator for next
meeting, plus intros. I've heard that some<BR>committees need to meet, so if
people agree, then between 7:00 and<BR>7:30 we could break the general
meeting up into committees.<BR><BR>The last item on the general agenda would
be demands, to discuss and<BR>vote on the following:<BR>- Keith's motion
(10/7) to add "Stop the Racist Attacks on the Black,<BR>Latin@, Arab &
Muslim Communities" to the list of central demands or<BR>slogans;<BR>- A
possible motion by Amee (10/8) to add "Militarism reinforces<BR>racism,
sexism, & homophobia" to the central slogans;<BR>- Possible other
slogans, such as "Stop the Racist Rhetoric" (R.<BR>Miller 10/8) or ones
based on Gustavo's post (10/8).<BR><BR>It seems that most activists want
most of the general meeting to be<BR>about important details of preparing
the action, but there seems to be<BR>a consensus also to hear proposals on
demands. Everyone wants an<BR>atmosphere of respect, collaboration, and
friendship, even if we cast<BR>divided votes and sometimes feel angry with
each other. One way<BR>suggested to ensure this atmosphere in the demands
discussion is to<BR>hear very briefly how everyone feels; then after a brief
silence, to<BR>take motions, take brief discussion, and
vote.<BR><BR>Informal discussion tonight at Assembling Peace in JP, and
discussions<BR>Sunday and Monday, will be an important way to prepare for
the<BR>too-short formal discussion Monday
night.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>O29
mailing
list<BR>O29@massglobalaction.org<BR>http://massglobalaction.org/mailman/listinfo/o29_massglobalaction.org<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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