<DIV>john,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>all the people you listed: chris, nick g., etc., have been doing a wonderful job organizing for this protest and their input is always great, crucial, and important, and i hope they continue to speak up with their ideas. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>the "big chiefs" i am referring to are actually not the ones you mentioned at all. i'm referring to the ones who come off as the most confident and talkative in the meetings, tend to interrupt others at the meetings, get aggravated and constantly try to interject into meetings that we have to "move on," and generally act like they are the supreme guiding forces of the protest and coalition effort who have been charged -- without any vote being taken -- with generally overseeing the tempo, character, and content of the whole process. everyone in the group knows that these "big chiefs" are the ones who act in such a way as to project the sense that they are in charge and everyone else should just generally go along with what they think lest they be on the receiving end of a moralistic, personalistic, and obnoxious (<EM>anything but patient and political</EM>) lashing. from coming up with agendas behind the scenes that get dumped on some unsuspecting
chairperson at the last minute (which has begun to change, and which is great), to speaking out of turn and taking an aggressive posture towards any agenda points or ideas that have not been pre-discussed with these "big chiefs", which makes newer people feel less confident to speak up in meetings. this is what i'm referring to. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>we have taken steps forward around these issues since i've begun attending these meetings consistently in September, but I think this process needs to keep proceeding towards further openess, active inclusion, and democracy, which will ony lead to stronger, bigger, more inviting, and more vibrant planning meetings, which will make people feel welcome and excited about building the hell out of this protest. this is why democracy and inclusion is inextricably linked with the process of building mass protests and struggle.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>we can have a huge protest on Oct. 29th. i flyered and tabled on Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday of this past week for the protest and the response has been great. we can make this protest even better and even bigger if we are able to continue our outward organizing, get more people in the coalition and beyond involved in this process, <EM><STRONG>and also continue</STRONG></EM> the current (and, hopefully, future) important--somtimes contentious--internal political discussions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--keith</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>John Harris <john.r.harris@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Hi Keith,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>You have raised some concerns about democracy here that should be addressed. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In particular <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>you would like to see more "discussion concerning the <EM>political</EM> </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>shape of the protest and movement". In June when ideas were being debated </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>about the political shape of the movement when the Committee for a Fall Action </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>had a</SPAN> discussion of the Fall </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Boston action you spoke volumes and no one cut you </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>off. Once there was support in the broader antiwar movement for a fall action, the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Committee for a Fall Action dissolved. The purpose of our existance was achieved. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In July, you chose not </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>to come to meetings of the October 29th Coalition or bring </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>your ideas forward. In August there was extensive debate on demands </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><EM>"political</EM> <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#000000 size=3>shape of the protest and movement" and </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT>you expressed your </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>views like </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>everyone else. </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>You were not cut off and neither were any of </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>the people </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>newer than </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>you. In September the discussion focused more on "getting things done" and I feel </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>this is only natural. You have been given ample opportunately to express your views </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>on the list serv. You have certainly taken this opportunity more than I have. I guarentee </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>that I won't </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>complain later that I did not have the opportunity. You seem to agree that </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>process should not trump politics or action. What we need now is Action and process </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>should not be allowed to trump this. You will again have the opportunity to debate "political </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>shape" in the form of a proposal for a demand. And the Coalition has the democratic right to </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>take Action on whatever is decided. It is unfortunate that we get booted out of our meeting </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>place at 8:00 sharp. But that is the arrangement we democratically decided to make. The </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Coalition decided in July to encourage </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>organizations </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>to put out postings and fliers. This has </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>been done. You could have made a </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>proposal to the contrary. But I think it is a little late now. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Were we being undemocratic? </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In an earlier post you raised something very closely related to what you are raising below: </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>"if anything, we should be seeking to get new people involved </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and coming back to the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>planning meetings to help us build for the protest. that means that </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>in addition to doing </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>outreach, our meetings have to be open, inviting, accessible, and exude </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>a desire to take </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>the time to draw new people into the discussion, hear out their ideas and </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>concerns, and </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>take the time to give them full discussion, not trample all over them and </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>indefinitely table </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>their proposals because "the big chiefs have to get to work." in my experience, it is quite </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>possible (and necessary) to combine the utmost in discussion </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and democracy with the </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>utmost in organizing. otherwise, at the end of the day, there is nobody </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>but the "big chiefs" </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>left standing alone in the room." </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In my view, I see you reinventing yourself as a newcomer </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and bursting on to the scene to </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>challenge the "big chiefs". The task of geting "new people involved <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>and coming back to the </SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>planning meetings to help us build for the protest" is what many of us are doing right now. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>The October 29th Coalition never bothered to elect a coordinator ("big chief"). Thank heaven </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>Chris is coordinating Outreach and Karen was coordinating Permits and Jason is </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>coordinating Media and Nick is coordinating the Web Site and maybe Brian on finances. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>I am not sure who is coordinating </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>our other activities. To some </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>the "big chief" line of </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>argumentation </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>in this context may seem </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>offensive and could put Machiavelli to shame. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>But for me it has provided some comic relief which </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>I have enjoyed. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>In Solidarity,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005>John</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687512716-08102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org [mailto:O29-bounces@massglobalaction.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith Rosenthal<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:37 AM<BR><B>To:</B> o29@massglobalaction.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [O29] Monday meeting, open to public, one protest/one flyer<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Hey,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> A discussion on the demands issue definitely needs to be on the agenda. It was a tie vote last week, there has been more time for discussion and compromise since, and because of the nature of the demand, the tie vote needs to be broken one way or the other because of the importance of the demand. We could just allot 15-20 minutes for this discussion, take hands, for and against, and then vote. A discussion on the different ideas people have for how to politically shape the protest is just as (if not more) important than a logisitical discussion about the order of the speakers or how we're going to get a sound system (which can be worked out in sub-committees). </DIV>
<DIV> Anyway, it would be healthy for our coalition to hear out in full the different political ideas people have about the protest, and not just talk about the various specific and mundane (though not unimportant) details. I've personally been frustrated with the extent to which our meetings have been marked by the quick cutting off of discussion concerning the <EM>political</EM> shape of the protest and movement, in order to "get things done." To me this is undemocratic, because then the political shaping of the protest, which is the most important part, ends up happening in individual discussions and conversations elsewhere. I have heard it said that this is done in order to keep the coalition "unified," but I actually think it only keeps us divided from hearing out each others' ideas. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Finally, I'm actually not sure that we should have 20 different flyers for the protest, all created by different member groups, and all saying different demands on them. If we were going to do that, then what's the point of even voting on demands? We are voting on these demands because we, as a majority, feel that they are crucial demands to get out there into the public eye, and, by voting, or not voting, we feel that the whole group ought to be democratically accountable to carry out that decision, with one flyer, which we will all be using.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Oh, and one last thing, if there is anyone out there in listserve land that has been following this debate, I strongly encourage you to feel more than welcome to attend the organizing meeting this coming Monday at 6pm at the Mass Global Action Office at 33 Harrison Street, 4th floor, in Chinatown (two blocks from the Chinatown T stop on the Orange Line). Especially if you understand the importance of getting this demand against racism on the flyer and central to our movement, please come to the meeting Monday and let your voice be heard. Thank you.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Solidarity,</DIV>
<DIV>Keith Rosenthal</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>DAVID KEIL <dmkeil@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">This is to pass on ideas I've heard about procedure Monday (6pm, MGA).<BR>Some reports we need to hear and discuss are: program; permits and<BR>logistics; outreach (including leafleting, endorsements, and regional<BR>outreach); and finances. We usually start with minutes from the<BR>previous meeting, choice of note taker for current meeting, and choice<BR>of facilitator for next meeting, plus intros. I've heard that some<BR>committees need to meet, so if people agree, then between 7:00 and<BR>7:30 we could break the general meeting up into committees.<BR><BR>The last item on the general agenda would be demands, to discuss and<BR>vote on the following:<BR>- Keith's motion (10/7) to add "Stop the Racist Attacks on the Black,<BR>Latin@, Arab & Muslim Communities" to the list of central demands or<BR>slogans;<BR>- A possible motion by Amee (10/8) to add "Militarism
reinforces<BR>racism, sexism, & homophobia" to the central slogans;<BR>- Possible other slogans, such as "Stop the Racist Rhetoric" (R.<BR>Miller 10/8) or ones based on Gustavo's post (10/8).<BR><BR>It seems that most activists want most of the general meeting to be<BR>about important details of preparing the action, but there seems to be<BR>a consensus also to hear proposals on demands. Everyone wants an<BR>atmosphere of respect, collaboration, and friendship, even if we cast<BR>divided votes and sometimes feel angry with each other. One way<BR>suggested to ensure this atmosphere in the demands discussion is to<BR>hear very briefly how everyone feels; then after a brief silence, to<BR>take motions, take brief discussion, and vote.<BR><BR>Informal discussion tonight at Assembling Peace in JP, and discussions<BR>Sunday and Monday, will be an important way to prepare for the<BR>too-short formal discussion Monday
night.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>O29 mailing list<BR>O29@massglobalaction.org<BR>http://massglobalaction.org/mailman/listinfo/o29_massglobalaction.org<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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