[O29] From Ty de Pass: demands, obtaining a permit_fyi

[John Harris]

Hi Ty,
The issues of inclusion and democracy and an "all-white movement"
were raised and should be addressed. Not dismissed. You are raising
the question of why "process never trumps politics or action". I
have tried to make the case that we should consider the process
more closely now because we are down to 3 weeks before the action
and have felt that this is a legitimate consideration. Another
process issue was raised that needed to be addressed and not
dismissed. A claim was made that a proposal was made and "tabled for
several meetings in a row". I don't think so. I made a claim to the
contrary after reviewing the minutes. If this amounts to "ridicule"
then I stand guilty as charged. If I am resorting to "tortured logic"
then I deserve to be ridiculed and we would all benefit by your pointing
out my error. Gary has been ridiculed by Keith but has handled it pretty
well. Those who live in glass houses should be careful when they throw
stones. I must also confess to something else. Since we have been
discussing the issue of "hard hats" I feel obligated to come forward
and confess that I wore one every day when I worked in a chemical plant
in West Virginia. We are all indeed a diverse crew and I hope there is
room for folks like me. I promise I won't behave like those folks
referred to earlier some 35 or so years ago.

You advise that dialoge "is founded on respect and the
willingness to entertain the possibility of changing one's mind".
We all know that we will be continuing the discussion and voting
again on Monday. I am looking forward to your input into the
discussion. I will arrive at my final opinion after the final
discussion and since the proposed demand is supported in the Statement
of the Coalition and in the Call to Action I am willing to entertain
the possibility of changing my mind based on the discussion.

In Solidarity,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Ty dePass [mailto:maceito at comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:56 AM
To: 'DAVID KEIL'; 'Huibin Amelia Chew'
Cc: o29 at massglobalaction.org; 'Keith'; 'gary hicks'; 'Christina Desir';
'Nick Giannone'; 'Dan DiMaggio'; 'Elisabeth Leonard'; 'Karen Slater';
'John Harris'; 'Robert Montgomery'
Subject: RE: [O29] From Ty de Pass: demands, obtaining a permit_fyi


whoa - David, John...i've never been one to shy away from a dialogue--or a
good argument--but i found both the tone and the tortured logic of each of
your last posts so offensive at so many levels it's hard to know just how to
respond. in one breath you've patronized, dismissed, or ridiculed every
argument offered to explain why process never trumps politics or action,
thought. the "dialogue" you keep talking about is founded on respect and the
willingness to entertain the possibility of changing one's mind--and you've
both demonstrated that you're not having any of it. you also seem certain of
convincing a majority to back your play (if for no other reason than sheer
exhaustion)--or shame on them. (sigh)

historian Robert Allen (1974) has rightly called racism "the final dilemma
of reformism," which "like Sisyphus.can expect neither final success nor
rest, unless it fundamentally alters its conception of the task at hand."
it's abundantly clear that my worst fears about the capacity of the peace
movement to escape the trap of its own history have been confirmed. so, have
your grand spectacle, i've got work to do elsewhere.


("tio") Ty

it ain't what we don't know that hurts us...it's what we do know, that ain't
so...