[O29] closure? i don't think so!

[R Miller]

On Oct 7, 2005, at 2:02 PM, gary hicks wrote:

> the relevant adage here is from an alfred e. neumann/mad 
> magazine textbook cover (i,m aging myself!):
>  
> " history repeats itself, especially if you flunk it"
>


OMG, I may have to make this one into a banner!  With Bush as Alfred 
E., of course.

===============

I agree with Gus and Gary.... racism is part and parcel of the war, and 
many other things besides, but you can't "demand" an end to it.  You 
can only bring it to light.  And the rally is about ending the 
occupation and bringing our troops home.  PERIOD.  You can't debate 
every social ill or you *will* have a free-for-all.

As far as the Roberts Rules...when I went up to a peace retreat held by 
WILPF they had some sort of order whereby everyone got to speak.  I 
wish I could remember the entire procedure, but the one part I do 
remember was that everyone only got to speak once...except if a group 
was under-represented (whether it be by gender or color) then those 
representing the minority got to speak again.

Just a thought....that might help on Monday to even up the voices.






> Gus <gustavo at espada.biz> wrote:
>> Well said Gary. I think the old saying is that a house divided cannot
>> stand, which is why if we want to pull the rug out from under the
>> current system we have to be able to set aside our differences long
>> enough to grab onto the rug and yank with all our collective strength.
>> Clearly there are divisions and disagreements on the left. Clearly
>> there is room for improvement in communication, and (dare we dream) in
>> building a respectful community that can work together effectively to
>> advance shared goals. For now, though, why don't we do our best to 
>> make
>> sure O29 is remembered as marking the beginning of a newly energized
>> movement, or at the very least a positive step in that direction. In
>> any case I do look forward to meeting you all in person, preferably 
>> not
>> to argue, but to start building the bridges we need to survive 
>> together
>> in struggle.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/7/2005 1:10 PM, gary hicks wrote:
>>
>> > hi:
>> >
>> > it has now become more than apparent that this argument isn't about
>> > the demands of the march, even though this is how it's being 
>> presented.
>> >
>> > this argument is all about a bunch of (mostly) white folks 
>> purporting
>> > to be socialists, progressives, etc. who for the life of them can't
>> > get a handle on the centrality of the struggle against their own
>> > chauvinisms.
>> >
>> > this argument is also about folks with purportedly socialist and
>> > progressive politics who for reasons known only to god and their 
>> cadre
>> > leaders have GOT TO BE the first kids on their block to come up 
>> with a
>> > correct line on these matters. hence whoever achieves this can go on
>> > to seize hegemony, power, or whatever elusive bragging rights (or is
>> > it rites?) and glory as long as folks listen.
>> >
>> > finally, ty is more than right about how it has taken this long to
>> > come to this point, since at least 911. this is downright pitiful 
>> and
>> > disgraceful. so---------------------
>> >
>> > i agree with david that monday night is NOT the time for this
>> > discussion, since we all know-- yes we do, because we all know how 
>> we
>> > are!-- that there will be no two for, two against a given proposal
>> > ----------------- but a free-for-all in place of the time needed to
>> > actually put this event together. and frankly, some of us (myself
>> > included) who were involved in the march 20 event, and some of us
>> > (myself not included) in the followup to the december event of last
>> > year, have all been there done that. and obviously, the april 23
>> > conference didn't/couldn't resolve matters because at bottom that
>> > conference was all about getting together people for a fall action 
>> by
>> > way of a few workshops thrown in--- as though these latter would
>> > magically infuse us with the intelligence needed to carry on without
>> > the hassles which we've been privy to on this past week's emails.
>> >
>> > so let's get down to organizing business monday night and check our
>> > ideologies and egos at the door.
>> >
>> > gary
>>
>>
>>
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