[O29] Troops out NOW or "at some unspecified date in the future to be determ

Sat Oct 1 20:36:17 PDT 2005

"It's important to set the record straight on Vietnam and how the war was ended: 
By 1968 the ground war was stalemated. The US knew it couldn't win on the battlefield and the Vietnamese knew they couldn't drive the occupiers out without an air force. US strategy shifted to massive bombing to punish the Vietnamese enough to try and extract concessions in Paris (negotiations began early in 1968).  The only force that could tip the balance and open things up for the Vietnamese victory was the antiwar movement here. When Gary suggests that the antiwar movement here was a secondary factor and that the struggle was really won on the battlefield he's making a totally false dichotomy between the Vietnamese resistance struggle and the deepening struggle against the war here at home. The nationwide student strike in May 1970 threw the US ruling class into a panic. It was at this point that timid Congressional "doves" began to make some noise. "
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The student strikes in may 1970 AND the growing support amongst those students for Bobby Seale, Ericka Huggins and the other Panthers on trial for their lives in New Haven CT, for all of their impact on the domestic political scene, should not take away from other facts: 

1. the national liberation front and north vietnamese army were at the very same time inflicting a royal ass whuppin' on the u.s.--- as early as march, shortly after the u.s. intervention in cambodia.

2. at the same time, the national liberation front, having survived the phoenix assasination  program of the cia , when 9 of 10 guerrilla fighters were assasinated as well as countless of innocent civilians,  survived and not only replenished its ranks, but were instrumental in forming the provisional revolutionary government.

3. that many other support expressions for the vietnamese people were made by the then-existing socialist bloc, the international trade union movement, and democratic forces around the world.

when viewed from these considerations, if i gave the impression that u.s. antiwar activities were secondary then i apologies. in reality they were at least tertiary at any given point in time. and your argument is not with me-------------- it's with le duan and truong chin and pham van dong and madame nguyen thi binh and those brilliant vietnamese comrades who architected theat world wide movement in their support.

in struggle,

gary hicks

robert montgomery <ilyenkova at gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/1/05, robert montgomery <ilyenkova at gmail.com> wrote: It's important to set the record straight on Vietnam and how the war was ended: 
By 1968 the ground war was stalemated. The US knew it couldn't win on the battlefield and the Vietnamese knew they couldn't drive the occupiers out without an air force. US strategy shifted to massive bombing to punish the Vietnamese enough to try and extract concessions in Paris (negotiations began early in 1968).  The only force that could tip the balance and open things up for the Vietnamese victory was the antiwar movement here. When Gary suggests that the antiwar movement here was a secondary factor and that the struggle was really won on the battlefield he's making a totally false dichotomy between the Vietnamese resistance struggle and the deepening struggle against the war here at home. The nationwide student strike in May 1970 threw the US ruling class into a panic. It was at this point that timid Congressional "doves" began to make some noise. And this gets to my central point that the record is clear: Whatever happens in Congress is an echo or reflection of what's
 happening in the streets. Today we see some small temporizing stirrings in Congress because:
1. The war is going badly
2. Opinion polls show growing antiwar sentiment
3. Camp Casey and Cindy Sheehan were  front page news for over a month
4. Hundreds of thousands were in the streets on 9/24 demanding "Out Now"

So the cautious, spineless politicians are beginning to worry about politics getting out of their control. This is fine; we want them worried. Hell, we want them in a panic like in May 1970! But it's our militant mass actions, independent of their support or prescence (Conyers and Cynthia McKinney notwithstanding) that has them worried.
The LeBlanc proposal Gary supports proposes not simply a tactical reorientation of the movement, but rather a strategic orientation to antiwar organizing diametrically opposed to our own. One orientation holds that real power resides in Congress and our function is to leverage the tepid liberal initiatives along by supportively lobbying "set a date" politicians. The other orientation believes the real power lies in deepening and broadening mass opposition to the war by continuing to build a politicallly independent movement based on mass action with a principled demand that supports the fundamental right of the Iraqi people to self-determination. That demand can only be for the immediate withdrawal of all US forces from Iraq. 
Bob Montgomery

On 10/1/05, Brian O'Connell <vinniechops at hotmail.com > wrote:I have to weigh in here and say that going along with a timetable and
leaving the war pullout to corporate loving John Kerry,Ted Kennedy and
Hillary Clinton does not appeal to me at all. Leave the war to the
politicians? No thanks. 

If we arn't going to demand an end to war and the pursuit of peace NOW then
when are we going to do it? Who's going to do it? The next generation? The
one after that? Or maybe the one after that? We probably don't have too many 
generations left if we don't cure the scourge of war and injustice. If we
don't seriously take on the military industrial complex with clear demands
then we won't have much influence.

The message,  "a sane and just world is possible, we have the power" can be 
sold to the American public, we just have to create a new protest culture to
get them down to the market. I want to sell them real Peace, not plastic
Congressional Peace.

If someone had me on the ground with a boot to my neck I'd probably want 
them to take it off NOW. . . I wouldn't say to my assailiant, "Please sir,
lighten up the pressure in about ten minutes, thank you sir".

Also, on the issue of including a demand in solidarity with Arabs and 
Muslims. For me that's a no brainer . . .Of course we should be reaching out
to that community.

Brian O'Connell
cell: 617-947-8983
home: 617-364-9746
vinniechops at hotmail.com

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